Blythe pushed the kid, so he killed him.

First post from a troll.

I'm sorry to have to say so but you're right.

The singer pushed the kid. The kid fell because of the push and died from the injuries that resulted from being pushed.

If this had been anyone here's familiy member who was killed you know damn well that you'd hold the singer responsible as well.

I have posted this under older article about this as well, so sorry for repeating myself.

I´m from Czech Republic, therefore I think I can provide the different point of view on the entire situation.
The main argument to prove the vocalist is innoncent I read in many coments all over the internet is, that after Pantera guitarist was shot dead, the bands are scared of the fans jumping on stage and the musicians have right to protect themself.
In my opinion, this is sompletelly twisted. The so called "megastars" should get back on the ground as fast as possible and get focused on the things which are really important. Let me write down some thoughts that may help to understand what the cultural difference is and how people in different parts of the world handkle their stuf. And surprisingly, it is not so much about the different cultural views, it is mainly in the peoples mind and what they think and do, no matter what country they live in.

1) the incident with shooting Dimebag Darell dead happened in the USA, the country which is very specific in the guns acceptance within the population (due to the famous Second Amendment to the Constitution) and studying the articles and news all around the web, the murderer was mentally sick paranoic schizophrenic. Also this incident was very isolated and rare. I have no idea how difficult/easy it is to get the gun in the USA, but in most EU countries, Czech Rep. included, you cannot just jump into the gun store, get yourself 9mm and go home. Every person wanting arm him/herself must go through the psychgological test as well as shooting traing, medical examination proving that person is able to handle the gun and many other things, not to mention the financial costs you need to pay on for all those papers and stamps.
To simplyfy what I´m trying to explain a little - we do not see guns being held by people on public. Also very little number of gun incidents are commited in Czech Republic. I am 34 now and I have never seen the gun incident on my own eyes. Actually I have never seen a gun being off the pocket in my life (on public). My cousin have one, he is the gun-licence holder, but he just showed it to me at home and that´s it. Of course - we have criminals here, robberies, drug dealers, hookers and pimps business, russian and albanian mafia fights and many other sick shit all around the country, all this of course with many illegal guns included, but basically this shit happens within those drug/hookers bastards and normal people simply do not arm themselves so much. And considering this, no one would attend the metal gig thinking that band members are afraid of being shot. This is something completelly out of peoples mind. So I can imagine that if the kid jumps on stage, just wantig to show he is complete asshole and then jumps down, well, that´s nothing to be considered as threat or danger of any kind.
Also I need to mention here, that I´m far away from being some kind of pacifist or so. I can say I kind of like guns, I was in the army for one year (it was mandatory for all young men of 18 years of age an older, mandatory army service was cancelled maybe only ten years ago). But all this would never lead me to the idea that I should arm myself and bring the gun the the metal gig for some reason.

2) the stage-diving is just part of this, take it or leave it. Couple of months ago, I attended Napalm Death gig in Ostrava, third biggest city in the county. The club was quite big, definitelly bigger than Abaton club at Prague, where LOG gig was placed in 2010. The security pre-cautions were ok, just check for any metal objects you may possess in your pockets and then you could get in. The crowd was approximatelly 400 - 600 heads. Napalm Death played perfect set and there were fans climbing onto the stage and jumping down almost all the time. Personally - I do not like it, because I like to see the band playing and listen with no drunken asshole ruining my view. The only thing I do at gis is a little bit of headbang, some jumping up and down and that´s it. But if someone likes to dive down the stage, well, why not - enjoy.
Napalm Death did not said even a word because of the stage-divers. When some stupid idiot stood on the stage for too long waving his hands to the crowd and so on, security guy just tapped his shoulder to remind him he is not the star of the evening, and when he did not jumped on his own, security guy helped him down a litte, but never with unnecessary aggression or inpropriate attack intensity.
And once, this was maybe the top funny thing of entire show - Barney Greenway showed how OK he was and while one drunken half-naked asshole jumped onto stage again, turned to the crowd waving arms and dancing, Barney came to him, grabbed one of the man´s tits from behind while still singing, twisted the tit for a brief moment and than laughed and went on with the blasting show. The fan maybe even didn´t noticed what happened. And that was actually the most funny thing on all this.
Can you feel the difference here? Napalm Death - on top for decades by now and absolutelly no mark of an arrogant or condoning behaviour. They know where their place is, they know why they are still here after all those years: just because of the fans.
On the other hand - Lamb Of God, when they released their debut, Napalm Death had already 7 albus out. Lamb Of God might be comercially more succesful nowadays, but it seems, that they have lost the track what the main pupropse of being in the band is and what playing for their fans means. And - instead of twisting one fan´s tits on the stage and having fun, rathrer kicking the other one down from stage so he dies two weeks later. Sure - LOG are in the business for quite a long time by now as well, but than it is even more surprising they can not feel the diference between real danger and discomfort or just complication.

3) I cannot hold back the idea of reminding how visionary and true Ian Mackaye from Fugazi was many years ago. Fugazi simply did not accept any kind of fighs, circle pit mosh or dangerous stage-diving on their shows. I may not cite his words exactly, but once he said something like: "Attending the hardcore/punk show does not mean, you need to behave like an idiot."
If fight, moshing or stagedivng appeared on later Fugazi show, they stopped playing, the people involved in this were taken out of the venue and their ticket money were re-fund to them.
Also, accortding to the information you can find on the web, he formed the corporation to defend himself and bandmates, citing wikipedia:
"In the summer of 1990 formed the corporation Lunar Atrocities Ltd in order to shield his own and his band mates personal assets from the threat of lawsuits. As Seth Martin, MacKaye's financial advisor explained to the Washington Post in a 1993 interview: "protection from liability is the main reason to form a corporation, and for these guys it makes sense. If someone got hurt stage-diving and decided to sue, it would be a little harder to go after their personal assets."
So actually not only trying to be reasonable and calm down the wild kids on the shows, but also protecting his own band in case some stupid asshole breaks his neck stagediving and decides the band is to blame.
But this is obviously not the case in LOG issue and even if LOG had some kind of similar company, they would not be able to help them very much since the singer is directly involved in the incident. The kid did not get his injury on his own.
If the band - LOG - do not like people on the stage so much, they had to put it into the contract and specifically ask for more security guys to be placed between stage and crowd. And if this is not fulfiled by promoter and venue stuff, than simply not play the gig. Yeah, this would be bad for band´s medial picture and fans will be upset that night, but with clear statement that security pre-cautions were not fulfilled and the money would be re-fund to the people (promoter should be responsible for this), there should be no problem and fans would accept this.
4) being musician myself, I also do not like some drunken idiots stepping on my cables and pedals or falling down on my feet while trying to play, but there are so many things you can do instead of attacking: step backwars couple of meters, stop playing for a second and avoid the person completelly, simply whatever is possible. To be aggressive to the person should be the last option and should be avoided if possible.
Well, how to sumarize it?
Every time something like this happens, it is bad for the scene, bad for the bands and bad for fans. No discussion about this.
I do believe the singer did not intend to harm the kid. It seems to me, that he was just so self-confident and sure nothing can happen, that he did not even thing about possible consequences. Manslaughter is maybe a wrong definition of what he did. The crime he is being accused of is called "harming the health resulting in death".
Thinking about this from many angles, trying to stand on singer´s side - I cannot do so.
He simply should not have behaved like this. No one will bring the dead kid back to life now and his family will never forget what hapened.
Peopple should be responsible for their acts. Being famous metal singer should not give the person the feeling, that he can do everything he things is ok and nothing serious can happen.
The dead kid was the fan of the band, from the info I could find on the web it seems he was the true metal head and guitar player in the local band as well, far away from dangerous gun-shoting murderer. Sure - he should not have climbed onto the stage. But no one should die just because of doing so, which is basically what happened.

The singer is out from prison, but not freed yet. There will be the court to judge if he is or is not guilty of causing the death of the kid.
Let the court decide.

You're completely right. You should consider switching forums and go to metal-archives.com forums, were people discuss this manner differently, than this crap over here. Actually they don't even consider band like Lamb of God/Pantera as metal ;-)

czechoslavakia sucks ass

this is all bullshit---

Czechoslovikia isn't even a country anymore, retard! Way to stay on top of things.

"It's all fun and games until people get murdered, die and get arrested. Randy didn't cause that fan's death. That fan chose his path. People need to take responsibility for their actions no matter what the consequence."

So tell me, Scottie: what if the Randy tells the crowd to perform the "wall of death" and someone gets killed or seriously injured? Should he accept the consequences for inciting the crowd to perform a potentially dangerous stunt? Or does what you say not apply then?

At this years Soundwave shows he encouraged fans to start a bottle throwing war across the barricades seperating the twin stages.

He thought it was a great idea despite the obvious risk of injury to fans. Fans that paid good money to see them. Apparently he likes the idea of seeing other's get hurt or injured & inciting general mayhem.

But when the crowd decided to pelt the band with bottles he acts like a prissy bitch.

Sounds like the action of the fine up-standing, kind and loving individual that he has been portrayed as by his rock star friends.

No? Then shut the hell up.

A washed up, wannabe, rockstar preaching life lessons??

Give me a break.

Whatever happened - it sucks that some kid died at a show.

Here is a really great Anthrax vid - insane loud crowd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZaqUGB518_Q#!

Stop bringing Dimebag Darrell's name to this discussion. That was the most bizarre/absurd scenario ever. You just can't use that to justify anything.

Are you afraid of performing live?

Then don't.

Completely agree. Dime's death was beyond tragic but it was almost 8 years ago; it's proved to be an isolated incident commited by a paranoid schizophrenic. On top of that, as far as I know (and I freely admit that I may be wrong about this), Nathan Gale never jumped onstage. The guy had a pistol and was a trained Marine. He could have hit Dime from the very back of the club if he wanted to.

If people need to take responsibility for their actions no matter what the consequence why doesnt your pal Randy have to take responsibility for his ?

He chose to push the guy off the stage. This allegedly led to injuries reulting in the kids death. Randy chose his path. Now he has to follow it wherever it leads.

You keep citing the " Dimebag " incident as an excuse for musicians/singers to be afraid for their lives yet, according to some reports, the kid concerned had been on the stage numerous times before only to stagedive off. So how real was the threat ?

So now Scott Ian is a coroner? That little midget, and everyone else defending the murder of a fan, have shown their true colors. As musicians, you don't the stage, you are hired entertainment! It isn't your job to enforce whatever security you think should be in place. If you feel threatened by someone climbing on stage, stop growling into the fuggin mic and call for security! Either that or get out of the music biz. There are plenty other musicians who would gladly take your place.

Scott says people need to take responsibility for their actions, but that goes both ways. The kid knew he was doing something he shouldn't be doing by jumping on the stage, but in the eyes of the law, if he did indeed die as a result of Randy's actions, the manslaughter charge is warranted. People need to realize he hasn't been convicted of anything yet. Let the process play out.

This will be an interesting case. Randy will of course claim self-defense in light of what happened to Dimebag, so it could go either way. Both sides are "right" as far as I'm concerned.

I love you, Scott, but shut the fuck up. Saying "HE DIDN'T DO IT!!!" makes you sound retarded.

I see there isnt much intelligent people posting in regards to this topic. STFU. please.

So what's your opinion? "FREE RANDY!!!"?

If you're going to insult the intelligence of others, try not to sound like a fucking retard, yourself.

"I see there isnt much intelligent people posting in regards to this topic." Really? Allow me to clear that up, jackass!

I see there aren't many intelligent people posting in regards to this topic.

Do we understand?

If Randy killed the kid, he should pay for it, Hostel style.

Pray that Scott never becomes a court judge...he would probably set Charles Manson free.

Simply enough if someone runs at me in a bar Im gonna defend myself. if he falls and hurts himself its his own fault not mine. Some people have forgotten that for every action there is a reaction. Does it suck? YES! Do I feel bad for the family that it happened to? YES! Do I blame Randy for keeping himself safe over a random person? NO! Gun laws overseas are different from here but there wasn't a gun involved in this. I have an idea.. We need to bring the crowd people that didn't catch him in, the security guard that didn't stop the guy, and the people that sold him a ticket, and his mom for letting him leave the house that day, and also the taxi driver that got him there... See what I'm saying? The only thing that this will accomplish after Randy gets out is that I doubt the people of Prague will ever get the chance to see them again for fear of Randy getting pinned on false childish accusations again!

How does Scott know this? was he there at the time it happened? No he wasn't, Scott Rosenfeld will use Any oppurtunity possible to be seen or heard. He likes to hear himself talk. And always as an Expert or The biggest fan etc!! Keep your big mouth shut thanks!

What, are you done licking Rosenfeld's ass and balls?

if this kid just jumped on stage and was killed by a hyper-macho rocker, the singer should fry. if not, he should go free. scott ian is speaking out of line. he wasn't there.

good to see and i agree 100%.

none of the musicians commenting were there and none of them holds a law degree.

fuck idiot big mouth musicians who assume because they can play some barre chords fast that they have some great life wisdom they must impart to the masses.

I can't believe how anti-metal some of you idiots are being here. Ever been to a metal concert? In the pit, getting pushed is the *least* unsafe thing that happens. You get elbowed, kicked, punched, picked up, dropped, kneed, thrown down, and knocked into barricades... and you jerk offs are telling me that one push killed this kid, afterhe traveled through the pit to get to where he was? FUCK YOU!!! Get the fuck off this site Nd never buy a metal record again. Seriously, if you think Randy is guilty of anything, you need to get the fuxk away from metal. Tough, smart, logical thinkers belong. Wimps who say that a push killed a kid who was obviously pushed 100+ times and much worse that same night? Dude no, get the fuck out!

Wow. You're so metal.

Hope you dont rust when it rains.........

Are you fucking retarded? You don't see the difference between the person who sold the ticket and the person who pushed the kid off stage?

I don't understand how some of you idiots even manage to breathe. Yeah, the security failed to do their job, but that alone isn't really an excuse to shove someone off the stage. Nobody forced Randy to shove that kid, it was his decision. That's why he's the one being held responsible.

I'm sure he didn't mean to kill him. I'd bet he did want to hurt him though, because he'd been up 3 times and was annoying the shit out of the guy. Sucks that this happened but killing somebody by accident is still killing somebody.

I don't think the problem is that the kid got shoved, its that he got shoved off the fucking stage. There's typically a barrier between the stage and the crowd, ya know. I dunno how it happened but I picture the kid falling between that gap and busting his head on the gate or ground. Either way would fucking suck.

I'd take an elbow to the face over that any day.

Is the Law!

...there isn't genocide declared whenever Municipal Waste plays. It's called "thrash metal" NOT-MAN. Do you remember what got you your career?

I'm don't particularly care for Lamb of God--because of the vocals, actually. And the singer sounds like a stupid reckless prick, from everything I've read. But this case is a crock of shit. First of all, if this guy hadn't been pushed, uh DUH, his intention was to jump! And not feet first, either. I've seen hundreds of stage divers bounce their domes off concrete floors and get right back up. It's an assumed risk. Second, after fighting his way on stage three times, the guy was obviously an idiot and a troublemaker who didn't care about anybody else's safetey any more than he cared about his own. Third, somebody comes at you in any situation, you have a right to self-defense. Period. All you defenders of dumbasses need to shut the fuck up and realize that you are promoting stupidity.

Like he said 'People need to take responsibility for their actions no matter what the consequence'. So if the death was caused by the push, he must be responsable. It's not like there's no law in the stage. If you push someone in the street and that person dies in consequence, you're responsable.

...that's pretty Metal. \m/

I find it intresting that only American bands are commenting about this.

Looks like opinions have turned in the span of a day, or maybe a few hours. I read Scott Ian's statement there and thought, good job Scottie, you said it better than I could. Then I read all of your moronic comments and I see you are quite the jealous trolls. So you think Randy Blythe should spend the next 10 years in jail for defending himself? Do you want to debate Treyvon and Zimmerman, too?

This situation seems simple to me. Assumption of risk. Look it up. Of course that's an American law concept, won't mean jack shit in Czechland. I'd say stand your ground applies here, too.

and his " post Darrell world " crap.

Seriously.

John Lennon got shot in the street. Am i supposed to assume now that in a "post John world " if the kid had been walking past Randy on a street corner & looked at him the wrong way he's free to beat push him under a bus because he invaded his space ?

Go to any NYHC show and see that stagediving is alive and well because those bands don't act like rock star pussies!

first of all, LOG sucks
besides that, I can´t standf a singer pushing a fan down to the crowd or whatever, ther worst thing I saw was Barney from ND got pushed by a fan that run towards him, but he ddint push the guy , he just slapped him in the face and that was it, he continued to scream and nothing happend and I can assure the fan was a lil bit over whats acceptable; but Barney is British, he has manners and selfcomposure, not like Randy who´s a dick and f*** on this one,
BTW his vocals in Overkill´s skull and bones sucked as well

It's true that I have mixed emotions with all this; mainly because there isn't one piece of concrete evidence. Attendees of the show that night are all posting different stories. I've read plenty of testimonies from people who were "there", and none were remotely the same thing. Unless someone steps up with some video evidence, or countless witness's can recall the incident in detail and have their stories match, he might be a free man. However, if some solid evidence surfaces that he violently "grabbed the young man by the hair and through him to the concrete", Blythe doesn't stand a chance. In the US, he'd have much more leeway in claiming "self-defense", using Dimebag's tragic murder as a reason, and getting away with more than the average man due to his wealth, fame, and success...but in Czech Republic, as well as most of Europe, aren't to lenient on self defense...in fact, they don't accept that as a defense plea in most cases. I'm a huge fan of LOG, and hate to see Blythe dealing with such serious charges, but even as a fan I can admit he was wrong. I do believe that Blythe would tell the security to hold off; and being that this club was notably "stage-dive" friendly, the guards probably assumed Blythe was alright with the fan's 3rd attempt, as he obviously wasn't trying to harm the singer on the first two. If it is a "dive at your own risk" type of venue, the guards could hardly be the blame for not stopping it (as some commented previously, the guards should have ignored Randy's request to stand back) because what the fan was doing could have been within the rules of the club. Some of this is going to fall on the rules of the venue...if what the fan was doing was clearly acceptable per club rules, then Randy should have never laid a hand on him, period. It's not self defense if you don't see a weapon and the person is giving no signs of threat. Blythe is one of them singers who love to get the crowd as rowdy and violent as possible...he has called out fans numerous times, threatening to jump out after them or inviting them onstage for a brawl. For instance (although this is slightly off topic, it has a likely resemblance to this, just with a much better ending), the fifth (and last) time I have seen Mushroomhead in a club of this same nature here in the states, Waylon was in a drunken stupor since the beginning of their performance. He was antagonizing fans to "fuck with him" out of the blue, and when the started doing the song "Damage Done", he decided to come out in the center of the floor (which is an entire "standing room only" pit area), and asked for the entire place to have a circle pit around him...sometime during the song, he got hit...he continued singing, but clearly pissed off...right before the end of the song, he started walking back up to the stage, yelling like a douche "move the fuck out of my way. Make a fucking opening so I can get through", blah blah blah...once he got back to the stage, he started snapping out about him getting hit during the pit, and pointed out one random fan in the audience whom he believed was the culprit, yelling "it was you tough guy. What the fuck's your problem?! Come fight me"...a whole bunch of random dumb bantering...he put himself in that predicament, but whined the minute his risk taking had an outcome. It ruined the rest of the show, because he was even screaming the calm songs...every now and then hurling the microphone to the floor and throwing his hands up for a fight. If artists want to play this style of extremely heavy music, and want their fans to go completely ape shit, they're going to have to learn the risks that come with it also. If Waylon didn't want to expose himself to the violence of the mosh pit, he should of stayed on the stage where he belongs, and sang from there. In Randy's case, he should of either tried to stay away from the guy while keeping a close eye, and he should of let security handle the situation...that's why they're there. As far as the whole Dime scenario, it shouldn't be used as a defense mechanism for being violent to your fans. Black Sabbath has had many altercations with fans who pulled weapons and rushed them onstage. They've been told not to play countless times, due to threats of bombing the arenas they were playing at, shooting them down onstage, etc...., on one occasion, the lights cut during their performance and 3 gun shots rang out...by the time the lights were powered back on, no one knew who did what...Sabbath STILL continued the show. Dime was not the first person to be targeted by someone for his music (whether it be a deranged fan who blamed him for a breakup of his favorite band, or a group of religious people who feel Sabbath were Satan's children (exaggeration)), and as tragic and horrific as it was, it's clearly a very low percentage of this occurring often. In Randy's defense though, I suppose you never know what you can expect from some of these rabid fans. There isn't a doubt in my mind that he truly didn't want to kill this young man. He was in front of a crowd of metalheads, and he wanted to be a masculine metal badboy, and show "I don't need security to take care of me, I'll do it myself"...and I'm sure he now quickly learned, taking matters into your own hands instead of letting certified guards do it legally can lead to serious consequences. If any video surfaces online of Randy telling security to stay back, or Randy attacking this fan in ANY way other than shoving an attacking fan off of him, he's going to get charged with a form of manslaughter. He clearly didn't mean it, but if his head injury was solely the outcome of Randy's push, shove, punch, throw...whatever, he accidentally was the cause of this young man's death. Too be honest, it's a very tough decision on any part, due to the little evidence they have of what happened. Witness's stories aren't matching up at all, the management team are stating the fan was rushing Randy, and there seems to be no video evidence. I would love to see this be resolved the best way possible for both the family of the victim and Randy...perhaps a very large sum of money to the family, and a few other punishments or something other than imprisonment...let's face it, the money would do the family better than him sitting behind bars...nothing's going to bring their son/brother/cousin back, but him being charged for manslaughter and sitting behind bars for a couple of years isn't going to give the family any justice. It wasn't a cold blooded murder, it wasn't intentional, and I'm sure the family knows this. I just don't see him getting away with it...as much of a LOG fan I am, I still think other actions could have been taken and this could have been easily prevented. I suppose the most important thing that can happen at this time, is that Randy, and other musicians of this nature can learn a lesson from this. You're their to perform; it's not WWE...there's no need for taunting and acting macho. Play your set and let security handle the fans...if Randy was unhappy with the diving policy at said club, he should of made a request before they took the stage...before the fans assumed it was alright, because it's something that happens there on an every concert basis. Nice to see Scott knows he was innocent when he was probably on the other side of the globe when it happened. This is just a real unfortunate situation with a terrible outcome.

Ever heard of paragraphs?

wall o fanboy text

Quote: "that person died 14 days later of bleeding in the brain".

A LOT can happen in fourteen days!

It happens the kid fell onto the blade of a lawn mower AT HOME. The lawn mower had been tipped over while still running because of visible tree roots, rocks and elevations in the yard.

The kid tripped on his own feet and fell onto the blade or the running lawn mower. Yes there was internal AND external bleeding in the brain but it was not caused by stage diving.

REMEMBER!

A LOT can happen in fourteen dayz!!!

I think the floor should be arrested. That was the culprit. I also think the fall and the fans' stupidity should be also charged with aiding a abetting.

WE ARE NOT PAYING TO YOU (FANS) STAGE-DIVE.WE ARE PAYING TO SEE A BAND PERFORM! THEREFOR YOU(FAN)ARE TRESPASSING ON THE BANDS SPACE. IF YOU ENTER THE STAGE IT'S AT YOUR OWN RISK!

Do you even understand the crime he's being accused of having committed? Do you know the conditions that apply to the charge? Simply pushing someone, even if it causes their death, isn't manslaughter or murder. It may not even be assault.

It is about INTENT. Did he push him with the intent to hurt him? Did he push him knowing that he could be badly injured? Or did he push him because the fan didn't belong on stage and he had been pushed off it before?

These are very important points that need to be addressed in this case. What was his state of mind when he pushed the fan? What were his reasonable expectations with respect to the push? How much could he have foreseen with respect to the results of the push? And at what level can he be held responsible for the death?

Great way to promote your music, Scott!!! \m/

My thing is this...it boils down to common sense. I don't care about what Scott Ian had to say about this. If I'm ANYWHERE and I see someone running at me full speed, I'm NOT about to just stand there. People react in different ways. Also, the fan had been held back twice by security already and got through the third time...don't know how it happened, but it did. My statement still stands...I'm going to react if anyone charges me at full speed. Also, the boy died two weeks later. That doesn't necessarily mean that he died from the stage fall. It could have been a multitude of things, and it doesn't mean that Randy's the person that killed him...just saying.