GUNS N' ROSES
singer Axl Rose
has made a lengthy posting to the MyGNRForum.com
web site where he answered a number of fan-submitted questions related to such topics as why he is continuing to use the GUNS
name and the circumstances that led to the breakup of the classic GN'R
lineup. His posting follows below in its entirety. (Note that the questions Axl
is responding to were not included in his original post.)
"OK, then!! The questions aren't here but the answers, as it moves along, I think point pretty clearly to what was asked in pretty much order or close of the seven pages. If I didn't answer, it was either already answered, off topic or I mistakenly overlooked the question. My apologies for the inconvenience. It's not as light-hearted as some of the other sessions but that's the subject matter. Whew!!"Q
: We learnt in the press, that you asked the former members to sign a paper giving up the rights to the GUNS N' ROSES
name and threatening not to go on stage unless they co-operated. Bullshit?Axl
: "So let's start here… the whole 'Axl
wouldn't go on stage' yada yada… is complete and utter crap. Never happened, all made up, fallacy and fantasy. Not one single solitary thread of truth to it. Had that been the case, I would've have been cremated years ago legally, could've cleaned me out for the name and damages. It's called under duress with extenuating circumstances. In fact, the time that was mentioned, the attorneys were all in Europe with us dealing with Adler [original GUNS N' ROSES
drummer Steven Adler
"Couldn't talk sooner as it could have jeopardized whatever nonsense was going on.
renegotiated our contract with Geffen
, I had the bit about the name added in as protection for myself as I had come up with the name and then originally started the band with it. It had more to do with management than the band, as our then-manager was always tryin' to convince someone they should fire me. As I had stopped speaking with him, he sensed his days were numbered and was bending any ear he could along with attempting to sell our renegotiation out for a personal payday from Geffen
"It was added to the contract and everyone signed off on it. It wasn't hidden in fine print, etc., as you had to initial the section verifying you had acknowledged it.
"Now, at that time I didn't know or think about brand names or corporate value etc. All I knew is that I came in with the name and from day one everyone had agreed to it being mine should we break up and now it was in writing.
"I still didn't grasp any other issues until long after I'd left and formed a new partnership which was only an effort to salvage GUNS
, not steal it."
"In my opinion, the reality of the shift and the public embarrassment and ridicule by others (which included a lot of not-so-on-the-level business types he was associating with at the time) for not contesting the rights to the brand name, were more than Slash
[former GUNS N' ROSES
guitarist] could openly face. Also, we aren't lawyers or formally business educated, so it was just a matter of all of us being naïve and doing what we thought was right at the time. Slash
was, in my opinion, being on the up and up in agreeing I had the rights, and I wasn't trying to be some snake in the grass pulling a fast one. The others could've cared less.
"But when the reality of the breakup hit and the strategy to have me crawl back was put into play, Slash
had to save face and get business team and public support. Painting me as the one who held a crowd hostage forcing the others to sign over the name worked out pretty well in that regard. I'm the bad guy, and Duff
bassist], the fans and most importantly himself were the victims. Oh, and they had actually made the sacrifice for the crowd, the people, the fans at the show. But again… IT NEVER HAPPENED.
"Media and others ignorantly, wrongly and falsely harped on about it at mine and the fans' expense for years, and Slash
has hoped to use all that to continually sue and have some sort of legal nonsense going on behind the scenes in an effort to reverse things. He wouldn't have been able to get the support and action on the part of his various team members over the years to do so if the truth were out there especially when the statute of limitations had run out years ago."Q
: Why did you choose to keep the GUNS N' ROSES
name rather than create a new name?Axl
: "Why keep the name? I'm literally the last man standing. Not bragging, not proud. It's been a fucking nightmare but I didn't leave GUNS
and I didn't drive others out. With Slash
, it's been nothing more than pure strategy and saving face while manipulating the public like he used to me. I earned the right to protect my efforts and to be able to take advantage of our contract I'd worked hard for where Slash
's exact words were that he didn't care. I get that some like a different version or lineup the same way some like a specific team line up or a particular year of a specific car but because you and I are getting played I'm supposed to throw the baby out with the bath water?"Q
: What do you think about people that say "Chinese Democracy"
should have been a solo album instead of using the name GUNS N' ROSES
: "I didn't make a solo record. A solo record would be completely different than this and probably much more instrumental. I made a GUNS
record with the right people who were the only people who really wanted to help me try, were qualified and capable while enduring the public abuse for years . The songs were chosen by everyone involved. I didn't want to do 'This I Love'
in any way shape or form, and Robin
, current GUNS
guitarist] and Caram
; co-producer] insisted gaining Tommy
, bass] and the others' support. There's been a lot of pressure to go with using my name (all external) but that never felt right to me for this band and the parameters in regard to this music have lots more to do with the mindset of GUNS
than something else. The instrumental I wrote for 'End of Days'
that's more a solo effort, at least presently.
"As far as a new name… this is who I am, not whatever else someone else thinks of. I don't see myself as solely GUNS
, but I do see myself as the only one from the past making the effort to take it forward, whether anyone approves or not, and giving beyond what many would or fight for to do so. The name helped the music more than you could ever know, and I'm not talking in regards to studios or budgets, I mean it as in being pushed by something and having to get the music to a place where I can find my peace regardless of what anyone says. And that wasn't fully achieved until the last round of mastering and swapping out a version of a track at the pressing plant that had gotten inadvertently changed at the last minute. Also, the name was what the industry wanted as well and the burden of keeping it was something to endure in order to make the record. After the monies invested by old Geffen
(that were decisions made that have worked out for me but I'm on record as having opposed) dropping the name became suicide."Q
: How much has been spent on legal battles over the name/how much do you value the name at?Axl
: "The cost of legal battles has been astronomical but I felt the deal made with Universal
was fair for where it is and most things balanced out for both sides."Q
: How do you feel when you read posts that say "this isn't really GUNS N' ROSES
?" Surely it isn't their place to say?Axl
: "David Bowie
, many with Waters
and those without. And there are those who like all the different lineups. In my opinion, what makes our situation a bit more unique, at least in how it's played out, is the ugliness of what really took place. If I'd done what was said then, I'd say fuck me too. I also realize this is just one issue in something with upteen however many more so conclusions can't be formulated off this little bit alone by most which is more than understandable.
"That said, because someone leaves the shop I started in which I still legally have the rights to the name I started it with… makes up a bunch of nonsense to win public and legal support in an effort to get whatever it is they want at mine and the public's expense… I don't feel any reason whatsoever I should have to throw what I've not only worked for but fought and suffered for away because some hurt, angry, betrayed, misguided and lied to people with a lynch-mob mentality, joined by others who could care less (especially in the media), enjoying the controversy and hate, choose one over the other regardless of what's right because they want what they want. And you can still prefer then as opposed to now and no one's arguing your right to do so.
"In regard to nuGUNS, I get that sometimes it helps to be able to clarify. Personally I call this GUNS
and the 'Illusions'
or previous lineups 'old GUNS
: Are you guys allowed to play any song from the GN'R
catalogue? Because in the past I heard that legal matters hinders you to play some of the "Use Your Illusion"
: "We can play what we want, as far as I'm aware."Q
: I would ask what the catalyst was to originally motivate you to seek ownership of the name? Looking back, do you still feel it was a good course of action to have taken?Axl
: "It wasn't so much that it was a good course or that, if looking back, I could do something differently; it's that, for better or worse, it was the only course, and had I not done this, Slash
would have succeeded in destroying me publicly much more than he, others or myself have so far and I would have gone bankrupt."Q
: Where would you be now, had you not obtained the rights to the name? What would you have called the current line-up of GN'R
: "I don't know where I'd be, but there's clearly no happy ending there and with everything else that had gone on in every other area of my life the devastation isn't something I feel I would have overcome at least to any real degree publicly. Hopefully I would've been able to pick myself up enough to get a job or sing somewhere else but I doubt anything that significant."Q
: Would you ever consider sharing the name with the current band members?Axl
: "The sharing thing is interesting, but even with all this time, the complications of the red tape and trying to get something out fall on my world to sort and not theirs. They are amazingly supportive and do their best to keep me in up spirits and focused which I had less and less of in GUNS
way before 'Sweet Child'
caught on. If that were to change, then that may be something to look at. I hope for us to grow more together as we continue so who knows.
"If I hadn't secured the rights, I don't know where I'd be and I'd probably call what would then be the current lineup 'THOSE MOTHER FUCKERS
"The name is something I take great pride in as I feel anyone who's been a part of it should, the same as other bands or teams etc. The burden when it is such is a nightmare but not as much or as hopeless as I'd imagine without it could have been."Q
: What is the difference between former members forwarding their careers through their association with you, and a band benefiting from touring/releasing under a name originally associated with a group of musicians who are no longer there?Axl
: "On the what's the difference… I think I get what you're asking… I feel it depends on how and in what ways either the former members are using the association and what the true circumstances regarding why they moved on from both the band and the name that would or could affect the decision to continue on with the name by in this case this lineup and or myself."Q
: Did you use the GN'R
name to sell more records??Axl
: "As for selling more records, it'd be nice to be in a position to possibly do so at some point but that's never been my base reasoning. I would think it fits into not feeling I shouldn't be forced to throw away possible opportunities in a hostile attempted takeover. I believe I should fight for GUNS
in a patriotic sense or sense of loyalty or honor. Not just my vision or direction for GUNS
as those things can evolve and you can make forward moving positive compromises by what others bring to the table but I mean more as in what principles I feel were important to GUNS
in regard to an overall commitment to the music."Q
: Obviously the name GUNS N' ROSES
means a lot to you historically. Do you think it would have been easier (less criticism from being the only "original" remaining member) or harder (the name obviously carries a lot of weight) to have pursued the "Chinese Democracy"
project under a different name.Axl
: "It helped us get here but most of that was with Universal
and the positives of that wore off years ago until recently and after the initial run it'll be about the music and us. Then it's about touring and there's not a question the name's helped at most everywhere but not so much the states. With that it comes down to the strength or quality of the performance. Having the name kicks your ass every night as it's not some side project or something you can fuck off in. You don't deliver, you get your ass handed to you. So it makes us work much harder than I feel we would outside of it and it hasn't been too ugly yet."Q
: Did you already have a new lineup or a lineup change in mind at that time?Axl
: "I didn't see lineup changes, etc., back then — I saw it more as a crash and burn, goin' down with the ship. On one hand, I knew the band was over before we started touring 'Illusions' but you have hope… but I saw it more like the Titanic sinking than moving on or surviving. And in reality, I went the distance with each and every one in GUNS
to where they felt for whatever reasons they either couldn't or wouldn't give what GUNS
required. And I'm not talking change of styles or sounds etc. A lot of people bought that crap and me having gone in other directions seems to many to have verified that. Then you have the mind twisting equally as true horseshit in Slash
's book, but I have the rehearsal tapes. There's nothing but Slash
-based blues rock and he stopped it to both go solo and try to completely take over GUNS
. I read all this 'if Axl
would've put words and melodies on it could've…' That was denied and I didn't walk 'till several months after having 3-to-4-hour phone conversations nearly every day with Slash
trying to reach a compromise. I was specifically told no lyrics, no melodies, no changes to anything and to sing what I was told or fuck off."Q
: What (except for legal reasons) would make you change the name of the band you're playing in?Axl
: "As to what would possibly make me change the name, [it] would be some form of evolving that I don't feel we've reached yet and not in any way consciously trying to at this time. It's really hard to say. I'd have to feel it was right for me and those involved and whatever we're doing at that time."Q
: With regard to ownership of the name, how will this affect GUNS
' induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
? The new band can't exactly go and accept the award. Would they have to requalify in 25 years' time for "Chinese"
: "Never thought about that, with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
. The whole 'mature enough' bit was cute. Not to offend anyone, but personally I don't have an interest and other than inducting Elton
don't quite get what it is exactly and who decides what. It seems to mean more to some than others and more so amongst fans. It's nice to get recognition and have some form of acceptance, but in regards to joining others, the price is too high and just not worth it. It's a ways away and seems a bit presumptuous to be contemplating being inducted now."Q
: Do you think you have to follow some kind of music style cause of your musical past, or you feel free to experiment some kind of innovative stuff or melting few styles wich goes "against" the musical heritage of GN'R
: "About following particular styles, yes I do feel there are parameters with GUNS
as opposed to not being or in GUNS
. 'Chinese Democracy'
is, in my opinion, an evolution not necessarily how each from the past would but how the music and intent could and did. GUNS
did not have specific lifelong criteria to follow and many of the influences on 'Appetite'
were abandoned by the others long before me. In fact, Slash
hated a good portion of those on 'Appetite'
and wasn't all that into the involvement or association but knew it worked at the time and realized it was the cusp of a wave that was growing. It's a trip for me to witness as so many of the people he performs with etc he hated then, them, their bands and their music where the others or I were the fans.
"I like touring with these guys a lot more than the old band. The beginning was fun but it started going bad our first gig opening for THE CULT
in Halifax between Slash
and I. That's when the 'OK I put up with all Axl
's and Izzy
's crap, now I'm gonna be the man' trip started with him runnin' right out front on the ego ramp for the whole show. It was pretty funny."Q
: How did the new lineup respond when initially asked to join GUNS N' ROSES
? Did they ever suggest using a different name?Axl
: "No one ever talked about or suggested using another name. The guys are really respectful in regard to the old band and I'm not sure if they've said a paragraph apiece in all the years towards or about the old band whether I'm talking about whatever or not. But from being with me for so long they know a lot of it's shit so they get bummed at the endless interviews and nonsense. Personally, I'm so proud of them I wouldn't know how to express it. I can't see me handing something like this as they have with so much class and maturity especially being shit on publicly to such a degree. 'Hey join my band, bring an umbrella!!'
"If I were to leave GUNS
, I could consider giving, selling, shelving or opening a GNR Burger chain with the name!! Ha!! Just kidding. I'm not so different than the alumni in that there's generally something going on that makes things suck and when that reaches overflow I want out too but if you didn't when it's ugly I think that'd be less normal.
"If I went solo — which I haven't — I wouldn't call it GUNS
: According to some people, the name should've been changed once there was no Tracii Guns
in GUNS N' ROSES
. Seriously if it wasnt changed then for that reason, then why should it ever be changed for any other reason?Axl
: "The name does come from mine and Tracii
, current L.A. GUNS
guitarist] as the original inspiration but was something I played with, not Tracii
, and GUNS
joined. It was GUNS
before I knocked on Izzy
's window. Earlier I had gotten Tracii
to use the name GUNS
(as he had mentioned a girl had called him Mr. Guns
sometime) so he'd stop calling his band PERSIAN ROSE
. So I guess we have the girl to thank."Q
, Why do you feel that the others (Slash
) believe that they were entitled to the name since GUNS N' ROSES
existed before they were in the band?Axl
: "The others having a sense of entitlement to the name isn't completely off but has more to do with how Slash
dealt with things and his particular strategy and I say strategy because that's what it's been. But since I managed to hold out that didn't play out so well for him in regard to the name.
"It's a band name more than a brand name. As Tommy
said regarding our struggles to make this happen, 'We're not lettin' what took so much blood and heart get turned to shit and dust.' And I guess you could apply that to current former or whatever."Q
: What were Slash
's arguments for keeping GN'R
never had ANY arguments for keeping the name until long after and again I feel that had a lot to do with seedy biz types and him feeling he had to save face."Q
: Do you regret keeping the name?Axl
: "Keeping the band name alive was very important. Not out of ego and I don't know exactly why in the sense of putting into words, but I think it has something to do with the global effect it has and how GUNS
surviving in some way is sometimes inspiring to others around the world and in that there's a sense of obligation.
"I don't regret keeping the name though I wish more were supportive or at least not as aggressively opposed."Q
: Can you detail any of the legal battles, if any, surrounding the name GUNS N' ROSES
following the break up of the original band?Axl
: "The details are that my attorney shit when I made the move. He was very against it fearing long litigation but even then no one talked about brand names or individual interests in a brand name. I look back and have no idea why. Not my people, not his people, no one. No one pressured me, everyone was afraid and no one including myself wanted to break up GUNS
or the relationship.
"We can 'chat' about the contract and the reasoning another time.
"The battles were during the breakup. Our people and my individual legal basically forced me to go through the motions with everything I had to make things work for over two years in the sense that if they felt I wasn't making every effort 110% and with all the sincerity and all above board I wouldn't have their support which I wanted, couldn't afford to lose or risk losing. Which led to the trial period where Slash
played the key bits of 'Fall to Pieces'
but once I showed some interest that was over."Q
: Making Duff
sign the name GUNS N' ROSES
over to you had very little to do with musical differences/ preferences. Anyone who reads Slash
's book carefully can understand the kind of reckless lives they had been leading and that they were too fucked up and on the verge of an O.D. on daily basis to be entitled to make and kind of decision and there was no use in trying to fight against it and forcing them to clean up because you ended up being the bad guy real quick "not allowing them to have a bit of fun." In other words, only drunk/drugged people can put up with drunk/drugged people and the way things were, they were going to ruin it for everbody and now that they are finally sober they feel they were ripped off even though many people warned them their actions would have serious consequences and they chose not to listen at the time.Axl
: "I get the part about reckless but it was more about strategy and underestimating how long I would stick with it."Q
, you don't need to use that name to be recognized. You're Axl Rose
! People know who you are.Axl
: "As far as people knowing me, this is a statement that in light of others decisions that I chose to pursue as GUNS N' ROSES
and what some may feel is a different this or that may seem as if the arguments or disagreements are about the band or the style of music such as blues or influences on earlier GUNS
has some relevance but, in my opinion, points more to deeper base elements I wanted to put forth for people in general. Such as a more positive intent and instead of as self-destructive, more of healing. There's all kinds of things to help you die or be more negative. I wanted to try and make as powerful a hard rock album as we could while incorporating beauty and an openness to other forms both traditional and more recent without going religious etc. I didn't attempt to make a party record or dance record, both elements consciously in 'Appetite'
. I wasn't trying to purposefully appeal to the heartland or middle America in those ways (not that I was trying to avoid them or have an issue). But for example, 'Sweet Child'
wasn't in any way trying to write a 'hit' mainstream song it was trying to write the best GUNS N' ROSES LYNYRD SKYNYRD
-influenced song we could as tribute and recognition in the tradition of 'Tuesdays Gone With the Wind'
or 'Simple Man'
, etc,, and at a time when nothing could have seemed more unpopular."Q
: You stated in several interviews in the past that you couldn't see yourself playing with other people and still see it as GUNS N' ROSES
. What made you change your mind and do you think you would have kept the name if you and the former members broke up on better terms with each other?Axl
: "One man forced me to work with others. One man forced me to work with others to survive. And I can't say what would have happened on different terms. I say yes because it was agreed from day one. You have to realize we were on the street. It wasn't the first band. Whoever thought of the name kept the name unless he gave it up or moved on. Everyone was always having a new version of whatever their band name was. I wouldn't have thought of using L.A. GUNS
or any of Slash
's band names. We all knew that we could break up the next week. You had to have that stuff somewhat sorted between each other going in. It was a deal that we made. The issue becomes the value or perceived value now and the fans attachment and or acceptance. Really weren't things we consciously considered even during the breakup."Q
, what in your mind does GUNS N' ROSES
represent? Do you feel that it is a vision?Axl
: "I don't exactly know what GUNS N' ROSES
is, but I know it's my job in the sense of an obligation and I'm good with that."Q
: Do you feel that if you hadn't have insisted on having full rights to the name would the band still be in its original lineup today?Axl
: "The name and rights have nothing to do with the breakup. That's all a created façade a decoy and a smoke screen. Now had what Slash
said actually transpired then I'd say of course but in reality, no."Q
: GUNS 'N ROSES
… best name ever with a double meaning to me. What was #2 on the list when choosing the band's name?Axl
: "Going into GUNS
, there wasn't a #2. At that time I was going to make it in a band that started as GUNS N' ROSES
and could evolve but that was the starting point and it was all the way or bust. I knew what I wanted when I knocked on Izzy
's window. I also knew I wanted Slash
but we still had differences and Izzy
wasn't down with it."Q
: Were you in, any way, legally obligated to carry on with the name GUNS N' ROSES
? To keep your (current, at the time) record contract etc.Axl
: "I wasn't legally obligated but we probably would have gotten dropped and I would have been driven into bankruptcy."Q
: GUNS N' ROSES
— the name contains symbols of aggression/defense and selfless submission/tribute. Does the name mean anything symbolically to you outside its literal, namesake derivation? Have the name's deeper synonyms, eg. the most dangerous band in the world, had any impact on your decision to keep it, or have you just retained it for its legendary status and ease of identification?Axl
: "I don't think about the dangerous bit or status or identification. I've always thought of the symbolism since thinking of the two words together. And in that I absolutely feel this is a GUNS N' ROSES
: Do what people (some of the fans, ex-members of the band, etc.) think about the ownership of the band name really matter? I think my question also is, will you please tell us why this is the most important/first question you are approaching? Is it because you think that this is what most riles the fans or this is the most pressing issue?Axl
: "It's an issue that gets brought up a lot, especially in the media at all levels, and it gets really ugly. It's ugly right now with DJs across the country who feel they're sticking up for something that they bought into unaware. So I wanted to start going at it a bit."Q
, some critics have argued that "Chinese Democracy"
would have sold better and had better reviews if you had released it as a solo project. What is your take on this?Axl
: "Most critics have higher opinions of theirs than is merited. I haven't read much from outside sources in the media regarding my world that know much of anything let alone what would be in my best interest other than looking at events in hindsight and playing armchair music mogul. Which most times means nothing and though could seem logical is usually just as far off base as anything else they've said."Q
: Do you think that it is right to continue a band's name despite having little-to-no connection with previous incarnations of the band, both in the music written and with the musicians in the band?Axl
: "The heart and commitment these guys play the material with is much more than the others were prepared to give pursuing their own interests for a very long time. The music changed after Slash
and I parted so the direction was where I took GUNS
not where I had intended or tried to go previously. It had a lot to do with not finding or knowing a more blues based player that I found inspiring and I was really knocked down and beat up. Slash
] decisions had as much to do with kicking a guy when he's down or abandoning ship at the time as anything else. Other things were going on with music as well, we were basically dead at Geffen
. I liked other things as well so I wanted to explore, be legitimate and survive. I wasn't doing what was written so often about chasing fads etc. Jesus, I wouldn't have agreed for Zakk
] to come down if any of Slash
's or the media's nonsense were real. And that could've worked on some level but like GUNS
it would've been up to those two and their relationship. They talk nice but it wasn't pretty… but it was pretty awesome!!"Q
: For further releases will you stick with the name GUNS N' ROSES
: "No plans not to be GUNS
for the future."Q
: If this is a GUNS N' ROSES
album, what kind of music would be on an Axl Rose
: "Solo efforts… Much more experimental and instrumental."Q
: Since you own the name, does it bother you at all when you see or hear things like "Slash
of GUNS N' ROSES
" and that he's still well recognized as one of the faces of the band?Axl
: "It doesn't bother me unless it's being done at my expense and or to keep him associated as in Guitar Hero
. Him being [in] Guitar Hero
's fine but not when Activison
is using 'Jungle'
, having Yahoo!
use 'Sweet Child'
unauthorized, claims no involvement with Slash
, his or anyone's image or VR
or anyone or anyone's music in either camp in promotion or commercials etc. I wasn't broadsided. I read about it as it moved along but Activision
continually denied it right up to the release. That's some lowlife chicanery on all their parts.
was in GUNS
and on 'Jungle'
(and the whole 'I came to him for his riff' is as much crap as him saying he brought 'Locomotive'
in as complete songs) and he has rights to perform it but not to be represented in this context in association with GUNS
. And since they weren't granted the license, it'll take some sorting."Q
: Does Geffen
have any rights over the name, or is it soley yours? For example they released the "Greatest Hits"
under the GN'R
name, so I was a bit confused over exactly how much the name belongs to the label, if at all.Axl
under contract but I own the name."Q
: How do/did you feel about VELVET REVOLVER
songs live? Did you worry about them mucking up the songs or decreasing their value by playing them? Are you glad the former members still play those songs so regularly on stage? I seen SLASH'S SNAKEPIT
live in July 1995 and they started playing instrumental "Paradise City"
for the first two minutes before Slash
stopped it by jokingly saying something like, "We better stop so we don't get sued!"Axl
: "I don't have problems with whoever doing the songs but film or video gets into sync rights and I don't have an interest in anyone new, old or whatever trying to sell themselves as GN'R
under another name that way."Q
: Do you think they keep suing you over it time and again because as well as Steven
they think you and the name GN'R
hold the keys to their happiness or is it just about money?Axl
: "It's my understanding the lawyers were scammed like the everyone else so for them to continually try and find a way to reverse things is normal and would seem appropriate but again it NEVER happened.
"Thanks everyone. Hope to get back soon. I'll take a look at that list. As long as we don't get to personal or offensive, I'm good with things. Thanks for all the questions, my apologies for not answering specifically to each, this was just a bit easier for this subject. Hope no one took wanting to stay on topic to personal. Thanks again to everyone who participated. Thanks to everyone for the great comments and appreciation."